Okay. On July 2, 2007, Christie joined the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League by signing a practice roster agreement with the team. When it comes to savior, the word is used in a lot of different ways in the whole of scripture, not just in the New Testament. Check out our newest Lake Effect team. But the problem with this argument is that it says in Luke 2:22-24, that its offered for their purification. If she was immaculately conceived, she would not have bodily assumed needed to be rescued from death because thats the purpose of assumption, which we see from Enoch and Elijah. Im surprised that you would pick Aquinas since he did not believe in the immaculate conception of Mary. We must be careful, of course, that in Marion devotion, sometimes people use very flowery language that they shouldnt necessarily be taken literally because they love Mary as the mother of God who leads us to her son. All right, so the Bible does not say that Mary committed a sin. Thats all I wanted to say. Can a conclusion be infallible if the underlying logic is false? Dont have the context of this question. No, he was free from sin, but he still had a mortal human nature that could be subject to death. Christie also served as an analyst for The Score Television Network. Christie then nailed a 32-yard field goal in overtime, sending the Bills to 5-4 on the season. No, the Bible never says Mary gave birth to anyone else and no one else is called a son or daughter of Mary. And this is what I did in the opening statement. Okay. So theyre different contexts to examine, but thats not what were debating, whether scripture teaches it. Thank you very much, Trent. And the issue too, is it discusses the word ipsum as opposed to ipsa, when it says from Genesis 15, if she will bruise the heel, or his heel will be versed, however its actually worded. But here Strongs says brother but that could also mean half brother, right? The fact that Mary died doesnt prove that she committed a sin any more than the fact that Jesus died does not prove that he inherited sin or committed a sin. For example, a Mormon dogma that says that Jesus is not God contradicts scripture explicitly, such as in John 20:28, when Thomas sees Jesus and calls him, My Lord and my God. Implicitly would be liberal Catholics and Protestants who condone abortion, which contradicts scripture stating that life begins at conception, and scripture condemns the shedding of innocent blood. Of course, this objection becomes a problem for Protestants since by this standard, many of their doctrine like sola scriptura, eternal security, sola fide would also arrive too late in church history to count as being apostolic. This is actually based on Jeromes incorrect translation, where he used the word ipsa for she, rather than the corrected translation, which is ipsum for he, which is actually supported in Romans chapter 16 when it says, Jesus is the prince whose heel would be bruised.. I do remember in that debate with James White five years ago, saying, Our theology should come from the Bible, not the Bible from our theology. And I was not arguing for Sola Scriptura. It is not considered inspired. In 2001, Butler signed Christie on November 28, to replace Wade Richey who was demoted after struggling on field goals. Well done. Please click that. Trent Horn vs Steve Christie Apocrypha Debate Recap & Discussion, Our Friend Steve Christie Gets Mitch Pacwa to Admit Abel to Zechariah Is About the Canon, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon With Steve ChristiePart 1, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon Part 2 with Steve Christie, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon with Steve ChristiePart 3, Gary Michutas Apocrypha Apocalypse Challenge ANSWERED! If so, if it was an eyewitness account, why hasnt the Catholic church dogmatically declared whether or not she died first? Its referring back to 2 Samuel when its talking about the ark being moved to Jerusalem. Then after being assumed into heaven, she would have a glorified body. And then take heart in knowing that these teachings about Mary dont contradict Scripture, and then we can further infer and try to understand what are the sources of divine revelation. We are going to be moving into a time of cross-examination where each debater will get 10 minutes each. No. So were not talking about translations of the Bible. Does the Bible teach that no human being has ever been assumed into heaven? Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. And yeah, I would just encourage others, Ive always said this, I dont see debates as a way to end an issue. I dont know if I would. But Mary only had a human nature and a sinful nature. So this question is for Steve and this comes from Kevin, whos a local supporter. I know not man. Its the same Greek words that Mary says when she says, I know not man.. Thats right. In fact, in the early church, it would be idolatry. Thank you, Steve. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading WHY PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SMALLER: A Defense of the Protestant Old Testament Canon. All right. And then Steve, because Steve, I can tell that youve really wrestled with what Catholicism teaches. So before she could go into heaven and have a heavenly body, she had to be rid of them, and thats why the apostle Paul says that we were like Adam and we also, which includes Mary, we also are heavenly. By providing an accessible and growing repository of teaching materials, as well as providing a means of networking within the apologetics community, ourvisionis to be a significant educational resource for churches, campus groups, and Christians around the world. on Hebrews 9:27 says, Its appointed for men to die once, but some people die twice. Hebrews 11:35 describes a group of people in the Old Testament period who were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they may rise again to a better life. The only record of this is found in 2 Maccabees 7, which describes brothers who accept torture at the hands of the Seleucids instead of eating pork and violating Jewish law. Christie claims we can know God inspired the Protestant Old Testament canon because God chose Paul, a Pharisee, to be an apostle. So it still fits semantically. Yeah. If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly. Galatians 2:21. Trent, do you want to start or do you want me to answer that first? In Isaiah 7:16 it talks about a time before a child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. And as Jimmy Akin has pointed out, if Mary needed to be sinless in order to give birth to the Messiah, then her mother would have to be sinless and her mother would have to be sinless all the way back to Eve and so it doesnt work. Well start with an easy one, the Bodily Assumption of Mary. I also want to thank Trent for agreeing to our second debate and we hit over 800, I saw in there, which actually our first debate, so praise Jesus for that. Regarding proof from scripture, for this dogma founder and senior fellow of Catholic Answers, Karl Keating wrote There is none, in his book, Catholicism and Fundamentalism understanding that these three Catholic Marian Dogmas contradict scripture has twofold importance. None of that is required by Greek grammar or what the verses say. He went on to score 1108 points in 156 consecutive regular season and post-season games and still stands as the top scorer in Bills' history. Primary meaning of the word adelphos can either refer to having the same biological mother or father. It doesnt mention sin there. Paul himself reaffirms this in Romans 9:11. When the Bible talks about all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, as I mentioned in my opening statement, its a Greek word pas, which means, everyone, which would include Mary. In Luke 1:28, the angel uses it as a descriptor of Mary within a personal address, similar to how John the Baptist used the lamb of God to speak about Jesus, and that talks about the significance there. No, Im not saying that the use of the definite article means that Mary had only one child. And I also have a video about seven popes, and possibly eight popes, that did not believe in the immaculate conception of Mary. And just so everybody knows, youre welcome to interrupt him or move the conversation along as you see fit. Another piece of evidence against Christies claim that divine revelation ceased during the time of the deuterocanonical books is that the people of Jesus time believed there were contemporary prophets who spoke on behalf of God, such as John the Baptist and Jesus. A Response to Pastor Chip Thornton's Anti-Catholic Newspaper Article. Gary Habermas: The Minimal Facts Approach To The Resurrection (June, 2013) Video Link . Singleton New South Wales MRC Australia provide radiator and cooling solutions to Mining , Automotive, Industrial , Agricultural , Marine and Rail Operations. Well, the answer to the question needs to be in relation to applying it elsewhere in scripture because theres a lot of people that are mentioned in scripture that doesnt say that they had any children. Oh, youre on mute. The Bible doesnt say that apostles are baptized, but it certainly seems quite fitting that they would be given everything else. Weve got lots of great content that comes out weekly more seriously, and you dont want to miss it, so click subscribe. First Corinthians chapter seven, again, it says, For a season in order to separate, but then it says, So that you go back, married couples to go back so you do not get tempted by Satan because of your lack of self-control. And we can actually discern from others passages in scripture that Jesus brothers are his biological younger half siblings. The Greek word translated until does not exclude normal marital conduct after Jesus birth. Yeah. These would be children from his previous marriage, making them adoptive brothers and sisters, and as such, they would be fully Jesuss brother and sister, the full use of the word adelphos. And so moving from that, that if Jesus Christ did establish the church, if Im confident of that and in its teaching authority, then I can be confident in what the Pope teaches about Mary in regards to those two dogmas but I can especially have confidence knowing that what is taught does not contradict scripture. So it would-. In Luke 3:1 its used to describe Herod Antipas and Herod Philip who had the same father, but they were born of different mothers, just as Jesus and his brethren were born of different mothers. 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